tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post315714833712130848..comments2023-09-25T02:24:22.087-07:00Comments on Anne R. Allen's Blog: What is a Beta Reader? Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Getting and Giving Feedback on your WIPAnne R. Allenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02420000168356370825noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-66695572331525412082014-08-11T17:19:57.289-07:002014-08-11T17:19:57.289-07:00Hi Janet,
Unfortunately, as we all know, common s...Hi Janet,<br /><br />Unfortunately, as we all know, common sense isn't always that common. :-/<br /><br />Interesting point about how voices that appeal to each other might indicate a better match. I've often suspected that, but I don't know for sure if that's the case. I usually recommend starting with an exchange of 1-3 chapters to start, just as a "test case" of compatibility. :) Thanks for sharing your insights!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-43103429251452760752014-08-11T15:34:09.204-07:002014-08-11T15:34:09.204-07:00You "codified" common sense, but your co...You "codified" common sense, but your comments were helpful.<br /><br />Finding beta readers is hard. I've found one helpful tip. Read the prose of a potential beta readers. If you don''t like their style or characters, you aren't apt to find their advice helpful. J. L. Gregerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01442307887725898087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-9927447292957753202014-08-11T14:26:52.139-07:002014-08-11T14:26:52.139-07:00Hi Lisa,
Very true. If we just want a pat on the ...Hi Lisa,<br /><br />Very true. If we just want a pat on the back, we could probably find a best friend or family member to do that. ;) If we're not going to listen to what they have to say, we should make our expectations clear up front--and NOT call what we want beta reading.<br /><br />As far as flakes, yes, that unfortunately happens too. There's definitely a balance between recognizing that we're asking for a favor and finding those with a similar level of professionalism. (That said, I never mind a reminder or nudge because my to-do *is* chaotic, and I'd rather have the reminder than inadvertently be a flake. LOL!) And if we're using the exchange method with another writer, it becomes less of a favor and a reminder is absolutely appropriate. Thanks for sharing your insights!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-91117729823321989112014-08-11T12:38:55.270-07:002014-08-11T12:38:55.270-07:00My comment disappeared. It took me a good while to...My comment disappeared. It took me a good while to find reliable beta readers. Too often I've found people who weren't looking for a beta reader but simply someone to pat them on the back (whether the work deserved the praise or not) or those who flaked out and never reciprocated as agreed.<br />I try very hard not to suggest a change without a reason - but you said it best. I want to return the kind of beta read I'm looking for from someone else. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13445859494787115448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-11071021350867661372014-08-11T11:51:07.401-07:002014-08-11T11:51:07.401-07:00Hi Christina,
The main group I've found who *...Hi Christina,<br /><br />The main group I've found who *can't* beta read are those who aren't conscious of when they like or don't like something in a story (and thus can't provide any feedback about what's working or not working). Very few writers will fall into that category. :) Good luck finding that bridge and thanks for stopping by!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-61553417598426469222014-08-11T10:39:05.345-07:002014-08-11T10:39:05.345-07:00I'm grateful that I found you here, Jami. I...I'm grateful that I found you here, Jami. I've long been convinced that I wouldn't make a good beta reader because my writing methods were wrong for the task. Well, I was wrong, and that's great to learn because I find I'm nearing the edge of the cliff and am desperate for a beta bridge and all there is at my feet is open air. Thank you!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03126300123309032716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-68629417754879903392014-08-11T10:25:40.676-07:002014-08-11T10:25:40.676-07:00Hi Sue,
Exactly! And sometimes we'll get luck...Hi Sue,<br /><br />Exactly! And sometimes we'll get lucky and click with people, and sometimes that's harder than it sounds. :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-46356096324689997142014-08-11T09:29:44.155-07:002014-08-11T09:29:44.155-07:00You nailed it Jami. The important thing is to find...You nailed it Jami. The important thing is to find a beta reader who "gets" what you write. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12652838315998685858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-12396638381252881122014-08-11T08:59:10.956-07:002014-08-11T08:59:10.956-07:00Hi Tam,
Yes, it can take a while to find good mat...Hi Tam,<br /><br />Yes, it can take a while to find good matches, and I'm always on the lookout for new ones because people's ability to commit to exchanging work fluctuates. I hope your experiences continue to go well--thanks for stopping by! :)Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-1514685537653505212014-08-11T08:01:17.214-07:002014-08-11T08:01:17.214-07:00Thank you for all this wonderful advice. I'm f...Thank you for all this wonderful advice. I'm finally starting to get into the groove of finding beta readers that give me enough feedback! I just got feedback on my Ghost Story collection and am thrilled. Self-publishing soon! I love how you break it down. I'm sharing with my writer's group and already google+ you!<br /><br />~ Tam Francis ~<br />www.girlinthejitterbugdress.comTam Francishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288925164591030505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-91994928509574615192014-08-10T22:32:23.132-07:002014-08-10T22:32:23.132-07:00Hi Al,
Great to see you here--thanks! :)Hi Al,<br /><br />Great to see you here--thanks! :)Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-29916797382805509312014-08-10T22:31:33.503-07:002014-08-10T22:31:33.503-07:00Hi G.B.,
Great point that there are *many* reason...Hi G.B.,<br /><br />Great point that there are *many* reasons people might not be a good match for us. I write steamier stuff, so I've run into that problem as well. (Although those who read for me despite their misgivings always say they were impressed at how I made the sexy stuff important to the story and not just gratuitous. ;) Yay! That's great feedback right there. LOL!)<br /><br />Good luck and thanks for stopping by!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-57189474917427101032014-08-10T22:28:38.111-07:002014-08-10T22:28:38.111-07:00Hi Angela,
VERY true! If we're dealing with a...Hi Angela,<br /><br />VERY true! If we're dealing with a reader-only, it's a huge favor, as you said, as there's not much offered in return.<br /><br />Even when we exchange with other writers, we're not always in the same place, professionalism-wise, so our expectations might not match up with theirs. Thanks for sharing your experiences and insights! :)Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-37487336767741188632014-08-10T22:26:22.821-07:002014-08-10T22:26:22.821-07:00Hi Christine,
Most of my family wants to read my ...Hi Christine,<br /><br />Most of my family wants to read my work out of curiosity, but they're no good with that critical eye part. I'm glad you have that built-in reader of your work. :) Thanks for sharing!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-57559274104928987712014-08-10T21:09:32.182-07:002014-08-10T21:09:32.182-07:00Hi William,
I'm sure some use different defin...Hi William,<br /><br />I'm sure some use different definitions, but these can help us agree on expectations and goals and feedback styles, so they're useful as a starting point. :)<br /><br />Like you, my feedback partners have always been online. We use MS Word comments. Then I combine comments from all my readers into one document (http://jamigold.com/2012/04/ms-word-trick-combining-changes-and-comments/), which helps me see if they agree on certain problem areas.<br /><br />I've heard of some groups using Google Docs, so there's no right or wrong way--only what works for us. :) Thanks for sharing your experiences!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-32577677254723933522014-08-10T20:46:11.937-07:002014-08-10T20:46:11.937-07:00Hi Paul,
I tend to give feedback in the style tha...Hi Paul,<br /><br />I tend to give feedback in the style that's most helpful for me as well. That means I leave a lot of stream-of-consciousness emotional reactions like LOLs and "No!"s in the margins in addition to my big picture analysis. :) Good luck in your search!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-68514740510513605452014-08-10T20:26:43.721-07:002014-08-10T20:26:43.721-07:00Hi MM,
I "exchange" a read for a read w...Hi MM,<br /><br />I "exchange" a read for a read with my beta readers, so I want to make sure the time I spend reading my partner's work is worth it for the quality of feedback *I* need in return. Some of my readers are definitely more helpful for what I need, and those are the ones I use again.<br /><br />That doesn't mean the beta readers I *don't* reuse are bad in any way. :) It's all about finding a good match for US and what we need. It's okay to be selfish enough to want what we need. :D Good luck and thanks for the comment!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-56395376954437277522014-08-10T20:14:24.062-07:002014-08-10T20:14:24.062-07:00Hi Julie,
Good point! Depending on how the critiq...Hi Julie,<br /><br />Good point! Depending on how the critique group is run, the feedback process can be slow. And I agree that even when we disagree with the suggestion, the flag itself can be helpful. :) Thanks for stopping by!Jami Goldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00957122956518765455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-78215798146551507112014-08-10T18:53:01.330-07:002014-08-10T18:53:01.330-07:00Excellent post, Jami.Excellent post, Jami.BooksAndPalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16119670940383926570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-42072040939629817822014-08-10T16:25:33.481-07:002014-08-10T16:25:33.481-07:00I've used a couple over the years, but one who...I've used a couple over the years, but one who I respect (gave phenomenal feedback on my commercial debut) has issues reading the type of stuff that I write (sex, violence and/or a combination thereof).<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://gbmjrflashy.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Father Nature's Corner</a>G. B. Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09783331838434598963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-10791374438109787322014-08-10T15:41:37.661-07:002014-08-10T15:41:37.661-07:00Great advice on beta readers. However, there's...Great advice on beta readers. However, there's always a challenge with betas: getting a response in a timely manner. They're doing you an immense favor in reading, so you can't nag. :-)<br /><br />I've found that for a speedy response, it's useful to post a project on one of the outsourcing marketplaces. You can get three or four beta readings done quickly, and from people who are experienced in giving feedback.<br /><br />Works when you want fast opinions, and don't mind paying for speed.<br />Angelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02919508449166626548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-68363034969453191982014-08-10T14:39:35.351-07:002014-08-10T14:39:35.351-07:00My very own brother is one of my best beta readers...My very own brother is one of my best beta readers. He is an avid reader, reads all genres and sees things that I just don't see. And he's honest with me. I would say I am very lucky.Christine Ahernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18332152375980196208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-67236345538151367832014-08-10T13:58:11.653-07:002014-08-10T13:58:11.653-07:00Jami, great contribution. I was completely ignoran...Jami, great contribution. I was completely ignorant that there was such a clear line between beta readers and a critique group. The gang I hang with tends to post fairly polished material, and the feedback when it started was typically a line-reading, but now less often.<br />I come back to a point about format, same as I mentioned last week- can't say enough how good it is to have the group be an online one. We post a chapter at a time for each other, read when we can (usually a few days) and respond with feedback that's of course neatly threaded. I guess it covers some of beta and come of critique and is ultra-convenient.Wm. L. Hahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09918981970218130294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-87681880695016743902014-08-10T12:43:54.072-07:002014-08-10T12:43:54.072-07:00I learned a lot, Jami. I always knew I needed to f...I learned a lot, Jami. I always knew I needed to find a beta reader. Many of my writer friends have them. You've given me some great ideas. Thank you. Also provided some wonderful suggestions for editing other's work: I've done quite a lot of that in the past and always tried to steer clear of anything that might change a writer's voice or style. Making comments, that are meant to be only suggestions in the margins, has always been helpful to me and I hope to the writer's I worked with. Great post. Now I'm off to find a beta reader. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8385052143211121638.post-34306156468415074872014-08-10T12:17:08.618-07:002014-08-10T12:17:08.618-07:00"Thanks for bringing up that point so I could..."Thanks for bringing up that point so I could emphasize that "ignoring" is okay. ;)"<br /><br />And thanks for saying that. I'm beginning to think my current beta reader is not who I need to have be reading my books, because I'm not getting the kind of feedback I need from her, and trying to "fix" the book in response to her comments has brought me to a grinding halt. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com